" What Mr. Wray glosses over is the direct fact that Zumbo states anyone owning these weapons is a terrorist.. not that that are terrorist weapons. He immediately set himself and other "fudds" up as the ruling class elite of gunowners. That was the slap in the face of the law enforcement and private security types. Hence his hanging. "

" Hi Pat, There is an error in you article. You stated that Zumbo complained about "knockoffs" of the military M-16. Actually Jumbo mentioned AR rifles. The AR rifle was designed about 50 years ago by a civilian, Eugene Stoner, who was an employee of the civilian Armalite Corp. The civilian AR-15 family of rifles are not machine guns. The US military adopted the basic Armalite design but added fully automatic function to their model. The M-16 is a military machine gun. Steve "

" Pat Wray writes, ...For decades the NRA has fostered a climate of fear and paranoia among gun owners... Gee, it’s not as though a Bill to ban guns is introduced in Congress every session (HR 1022 by Carolyn McCarthy (D) NY.Or ,it’s not as though the Clinton administration banned most of those black rifles. Or, it’s not as though the Democratic leadership, that Controls the House ( Pelosi, Rangle, Conyers, Weiner, Nadler, Kennedy Jackson, etc),and Senate ( Boxer, Feinstein , Schumer, Clinton Lautenberg, Corzine, etc.) would’t ban all guns in a heartbeat. Or, it’s not as though wealthy Foundations (Tides, Joyce, etc.) and individuals ( George Soros, Mike Bloomberg, etc.) are supporting junk science(Open Society Institute and Soros Foundation Network & The Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health )and propaganda groups (Freedom States Alliance, etc. ) trying to ban guns. No, it’s all paranoia fostered by the NRA. Mr Wray further characterizes NRA members as follows:� In a few short days the career of the best known hunting writer in America was served in small bloody pieces to a crowd of vicious, vengeful, vitriolic jackals ( NRA members). This is worth analysis. ( my analysis, this article is not about Jim Zumbo, it is about Pat Wray’s dislike of the NRA. Further, Mr Wray was quoted in a Washington Post story http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/23/AR2007022301709.html 'Terrorist' Remark Puts Outdoorsman's Career in Jeopardy ...Some outdoors writers drew a different lesson from Zumbo's horrible week. "This shows the zealousness of gun owners to the point of actual foolishness," said Pat Wray, a freelance outdoors writer in Corvallis, Ore., and author of "A Chukar Hunter's Companion." Wray said that what happened to Zumbo is a case study in how the NRA has trained members to attack their perceived enemies without mercy. "For so many years, Zumbo has been a voice for these people -- for hunting and for guns -- and they just turned on him in an instant," Wray said. "He apologized all over himself, and it didn't do any good."... So NRA Members are foolish, trained to attack, vicious vengeful,vitriolic jackels. Gee , Pat Wray makes his living writing for “these people?� "

" You're an elitist snob like Jimbo Zumbo Dumbo "

" Yes, Mr. Wray. I do not own a "Black Rifle". I do not hunt. I do not even know what a Chuckar is. I don't care. I do now write a blog either, but I know this....The day of writing thoughtless comments without considering the "Instant and Immediate" impact that it will have on the community is over. The days of "err in haste and repent at liesure" are over. Yes, if Rosie had made his comments, us gunnies would have yawned. Not him. 67 is old enough. He can do Oprah or Ellen and maybe somebody there will listen. "

" Pat Wray is disingenuous in his remarks on assault weapons. Wray supported the American Hunters and Shooters Association (AHSA), an anti-gun front group that wants to eliminate 50 caliber rifles and the "assault" weapons mentioned by Zumbo. Wray claimed to have interviewed the AHSA board members to ensure that they weren't anti-gun, yet supported the group even when they made their anti-gun and anti-assault weapons positions public on their web site. "

" Zumboned - To be boned by a fellow gunowner....The 2nd Amendment isn't about gunownership for "Sporting Purposes" to protect your hunting rifles & shotguns. The spirit and intent of the 2nd Amendment is about ensuring that the current 'Arms of the Day' are in the hands of the general populace to deter tyranny from enemies abroad & within from depriving any U.S. citizens of our life, liberty, property and our great country. And this time in our nation's history with threats of terrorism & criminal violence perputrated upon the general public. I think it is a good idea for all U.S. Citizen's to be getting the proper firearms handling & shooting training, to arm themselves, their homes, businesses & be ready....period! "

" Mr. Wray, Off Topic - but; What dates and units were you eith the USMC ? Larry D May Wasilla, Alaska "

" Mr Wray, We'll just have to agree to disagree. In your e-mail response which referenced this column, you refer to the reaction of many to Mr Zumbo's comments as a "...high tech lynching conducted by an enraged mob." I would characterize it as effective use of modern communication means to effectively to counter what many of "Mob" believed to be an abuse of the "bully pulpit" by someone with access. I also find it interesting that the dynamic began as a result of Mr Zumbo's use of the the very same communication means, i.e, an internet blog. I also take issue with your conclusion that the NRA is somehow responsible for the "...anger and fear that fueled the internet attacks". Rather, I think that Mr Zumbo's comments, close on the heels of HR 1022, was simply the straw that broke the camel's back for many gunowners. We do agree on one point. It's not about hunting, its about the 2nd Amendment. I respect Mr Zumbo's opinion and I absolutely support his 1st Amendment right to express his views. Should't the dissenters have the same right? Regards, Jack Baillie john.baillie@adelphia.net "

" Yet another Fudd speaks "

" I beg to differ on the NRA fostering the attitude that was used to destroy a mans career. I would lay blame to every gun grabbing diplomat on our Washingtons payroll and around the country. We see articles in the news and on the News web sites that our right under the second ammendment is at risk everyday. Maybe we have all had enough. We either stand together or we hang seperatly, as Zumbo did. How arrogant of Zumbo to slam us with the terroist tag after most of us have kept him afloat and paid for his hunts for years. I think it is time for our representatives as well as our entertainers to take note of what happened. Lathered up and sharpening our internet knives?? How colorful! Mine is re-sharpened and re-sheathed ready to be re-deployed when needed. "

" Mr. Wray - I never read a single article or watched a single show done by Mr. Zumbo. However, cosmetic differences of a firearm do not change its "character" and make it evil. Mr. Zumbo should have known that, and his statements were ridiculous and offensive. Thankfully, in the United States the target audience has the right to speak back and be heard just as Mr. Zumbo has the right to voice his opinions. What you seek to explain was nothing more that freedom in action. "

" I agree with Mr. Wray. It seems many gun owners (especially assault weapon enthusiasts) work themselves up into a frenzy, and go on the attack with realizing the damage they are doing to themselves as well as their perceived enemy. The anti-gun crowd has enjoyed ever minute of reading about infighting because of these ill conceived attacks on each other. "

" Mr. Wray, your anger is misplaced. Neither the NRA not the individual people who condemned Mr. Zumbo's reprehensible column are responsible for Mr. Zumbo's demise. Rather, Mr. Zumbo himself is responsible due to his own actions of labeling owners of so-called assault weapons as terrorists and calling for their ban. Although the socialist mindset of today recoils at the thought of individual responsibility and reflexively strives to blame others for personal failings, in the real world actions continue to have consequences as Mr. Zumbo discovered. Furthermore, you appear to be out of touch with regard to the agenda of the gun control lobby. They are indeed out to take our guns as anyone who has paid even passing attention to legislative action over the years would be well aware. I offer as just a few examples the California and New York assault weapon bans, the 922 non-sporting weapons ban and the 1994 federal assault weapons ban. Have you already forgotten Senator Feinstein's proclamation? "If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an outright ban, picking up every one of them, Mr. and Mrs. America, turn them all in, I would have done it." You may also wish to look up Senator Kennedy's comments about the "unconscionable" sale of .30-30 ammunition in American. And if all that isn't enough to convince you, please consider the experiences of our brethren in Britain and Australia, and reflect on the wholesale confiscation of all types firearms they have suffered in recent decades. Perhaps what you really mean is that you think no one is out to take _your_ guns. But I know, by their current actions, that the gun-control lobby is out to take my guns. At this very moment I and my fellow Maryland firearms owners are in a dire struggle against SB-43 that would ban a broad number of rifles and handguns, not to mention the dramatically expanded AWB bill HR-1022 currently being proposed at the federal level. Beware, Mr. Wray. Today's classic hunting rifle too easily becomes tomorrow's long-range, high-powered, optically enhanced armor-piercing sniper rifle, and thus becomes the next target of the gun grabbers. This is the point we were trying to stress to Mr. Zumbo, but he did not understand. Perhaps you don't understand either. "

" Jim Zumbo didn’t get it and now Pat Wray doesn’t get. Pat Wray’s article in the Gazette Time about Jim Zumbo being attached by gun owners is completely off base as to why he was attached. Jumbo was attached and rightly so because he said that that legally owned rifles should be banned from being used for hunting. He called them assault and terrorist rifles and called users of these rifle terrorist. What Zumbo’s words amounted to was an attack on your and my 2nd Amendment rights which was never about hunting. The 2nd Amendment was put in place to guarantee that the Citizens of the United States are armed and to give them a fighting chance in case someone declared themselves dictator of the United States and declared our Constitution along with all Amendments null and void. Enemies of our Constitution want to get rid of the 2nd Amendment first because it would in effect pull the teeth on the Citizens of these United States. We would no longer have a fighting chance. Guess which Amendment they would attach next. The 1st Amendment guarantees freedom of the press. It says that no government can censor the press. This was put in place to insure that the truth is reported to the Citizens of the United States about what our government is doing. With the 1st Amendment gone, control by a dictator would be much simpler. You would only read in the news what the government wanted you to know and it probably wouldn’t always be the truth. The NRA and other groups have worked diligently to preserve the 2nd Amendment against other groups who feel that the 2nd Amendment and possible our 200+ year old Constitution is obsolete. Most of these groups use gun safety or gun crimes as an excuse to cover their agenda for taking away our 2nd Amendment rights. Those of us who are supporters of our Constitution have finally found a new tool. When Zumbo tried to speak for us on this issue we simple fought back using the internet to let Zumbo’s sponsors and anyone else who would listen that Zumbo doesn’t speak for us and because of what he said we now consider him and enemy of what we stand for. "

" The ones fostering division in the gun-owning community are those who advocate banning other people's guns or barring their owners from hunting with them, not those who take exception to it. Mr. Zumbo labeled some of the most popular civilian sporting arms in the United States "terrorist rifles," and called for banning popular varmint and deer guns from the prairies and fields. The negative response to that call, from hunters and nonhunters alike, wasn't a sign of division, but of SOLIDARITY. Solidarity in support of our rights, and against the AHSA types who seek to play us against each other in order to further a ban-more-guns agenda. "

" I think Mr. Wray's statement is interesting in that the comments made by Zumbo that spawned this entire cascade of events were made in that alternate universe Mr. Wray refers to, and were themselves guilty of Ready...Fire...Aim as Mr. Wray states. It seems that Mr. Wray is giving his friend Mr. Zumbo the benefit of the doubt, but calling others who acted in exactly the same fashion the lynch mob. I suggest he take a serious look at all the events and his own motivation. I wrote no letters, and contributed nothing to the undoing of Mr. Zumbo, other than to observe the events. I do feel it is tragic that a man's livelihood was that completely destroyed but feel that his careless remarks precipitated the events. We can argue whether or not gun-owners overreacted to what was said, but the simple fact is they reacted. Had Zumbo's words not been careless and inflammatory the following cascade of events would not have followed. Am I not guilty of my own downfall if I set the events in motion? BJ "

" Mr Wray seems to think that it is the NRA that created the downfall of Mr Zumbo. I am more of the belief that each of us is responsible for what we say and do. Maybe his point that the NRA is somewhat tyrranical in their beliefs is true, but is it any less so for those politicians who will go to any lengths and tell any lie to make all gun owners look like criminals because we have a strong belief in the second amendment? I think we need to remember that it is mainly the NRA who supports gun owners and puts its money where its mouth is. Maybe Mr Zumbo should have paid more attention to his constituents. I have no animosity to Mr Zumbo. I only wish I could have had the good fortune to fall into an occupation such as his. Thanks JIM A "

" You can bet that Brady, etc will happily quote Zumbo when they push for the next AWB. "Look", they'll crow, "even respected veteran hunters like Zumbo think black rifles should be banned". "

" Jim Zumbo took aim at a large segment of the firearms community, howevr he shot himself between the eyes. Calling owners of military style rifles terrorists was a slap in the face to all of us specially those who are veterans and those who are currently serving this country. He did this to himself, personally I do not understand how someone who has been involved with firearms could make such a statement. He obviously is not very well versed in firearms as to not know that these are semi auto weapons not fully automatic assualt weapons. Furthermore a killing spree was conducted by a moslem terrorist in the last several days in a mall in Utah, his weapon of choice was a shotgun, not a semi auto version of an assualt rifle. should shot guns be banned? He is an elitist who is isolated from the people he writes for, and learned a lesson the hard way. I think this will make some politicians take notice when they try to pass more gun restricting legislation. they have awakened a sleeping giant who will deny them votes and campaign contributions in their quest for office. "

" The 1st Amendment when used in a world wide media will result in rather large response of all types of people exercising their 1st Amendment rights. Its the risk I just took.This is also the reason for my objections to Mr. Wray's comments on the worlds media platform.While I had nothing to do with Mr. Zumbo, my advice to all would be; say what you like, but do not poop on the dinner plate of the ones bringing your dinner. Freedom, lets make sure it applies to all of us or it becomes Socialism. thanks "

" What a bunch of hillbillies posting about a topic that they really don't understand. I wonder if anyone in their families could read the second amendment to them. They talk about freedom, and then condemn one of their own for having an opinion. While I may not agree with Mr. Zumbo, I respect his right to an opinion. What do you call 100 hunters on a bus going off a cliff into the ocean? A good start. The best thing you folks could do is accept Mr. Zumbo’s apology, and leave it alone. He was one of the best and well-respected hunters in America, and you folks just shot yourselves in the foot. He mispoke, but he is on the right track. "

" what i find funny is this came from a man who made his living trophy hunting, not killing for the meat but sport killing, killing for the pure pleasure of taking an animals life. and he condemns those that punch holes in paper with an AK47, big time hypocrite he is "

" Is Pat Wray's head in the sand, or up his a$$? He believes and wishes us to buy that there are no movements to curtail firearms as well as hunting? It is all the figment of our imagination put there by the NRA? Pat, Pat, Pat that is the second stupid opinion I have heard in a week. "

" Let's bring it down to basics. Zumbo forgot the rules. The Second Amendment doesn't say "Hunting Rifles" and what part of, "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED" doesn't he understand. He came off as an elitist snob. I say good riddance. "

" "The Truth", you sir, are 100% incorrect. No one is advocating that Mr. Zumbo not be allowed to speak his mind. Mr. Zumbo, however, does not have the right (and please take note of this Mr. Wray) to demand that those who do not agree with his remarks continue to employ him, nor does he have the right to escape criticism for his remarks. I wish you well. "

" Pat, you and Zumbo are right. If we just sell out the black rifle terrorists who know nothing about what real sport hunting is all about then maybe we can gain a couple of years before they come take away our duck guns and deer rifles. After all, look how well it worked in Great Britain. Now that we've had our little laugh, Zumbo had every right to voice his opinion. Doesn't shoot em, doesn't like em, can't understand why anyone would. Ok, his position and open for honest debate. But, he stepped over the line and became a "useful idiot" for the Bradys and others of that ilk when he started up with assault weapons and terrorist guns. It stopped being a reasonable difference of opinion and turned into a sellout by a trusted friend to our worst enemies. Pass another AWB, think that will get the banners off our backs? Hell no, it would only serve to whet their appetites to go for their real goal, a total ban on all firearm ownership by private citizens. Don't believe me? Read some of the rhetoric from Boxer and Feinstein after the '94 AWB. "If we'd had 51 votes I would be at your front door yelling Mr. and Mrs. America turn them in!" "

" Pat, it appears that you are in die need of some education concerning our God-given, Natural and Inalienable Right; http://gunshowonthenet.com/2ALaw/LawsofNature.html http://gunshowonthenet.com/2ALEGAL/AffordedGodNature.html http://gunshowonthenet.com/SecondAmend/GeorgeWashingtonArms.html http://gunshowonthenet.com/2ALEGAL/SelfPreservation.html http://gunshowonthenet.com/2ALEGAL/Precedent/SenateJournal09091789.html http://gunshowonthenet.com/2ALEGAL/CitizensRight.html http://gunshowonthenet.com/SecondAmend/TheRight.html Our RIGHT has NOTHING to do with hunting; "Whereas civil-rulers, not having their duty to the people duly before them, may attempt to tyrannize, and as military forces, which must be occasionally raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to the injury of their fellow citizens, the people are confirmed by the article in their right to keep and bear their private arms." - Tenche Coxe, 'Remarks on the First Part of the Amendments to the Federal Constitution' using the Pseudonym "A Pennsylvanian" in the Philadelphia Federal Gazette, June 18, 1789 at 2 col. 1. "Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? ... Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American. The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people." - Tenche Coxe, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788. (Mr. Coxe was a prominent Philadelphian and political economist who was named assistant secretary of the treasury in 1790, commissioner of revenue in 1792, and purveyor of public supplies in 1803). "

" I will point Mr. Wray and others to http://www.alphecca.com/ as I believe that Jeff Soyer gives a quick, fair, synopsis of this issue. I left the USAF and went to NJ where I found out it was illegal for me to own my hunting shotgun because I did not have their ID card. Now I live in IL. The NRA has nothing to do with my opinions as I consider them complicite supporting "reasonable" gun control. Politicians should be paying more attention to crime control and not patriotic law abiding citizen control. http://shallnotbeinfringed.blogspot.com "

" What is sad is that so many want to devour someone who has done so much for their rights over the years. WHAT HAVE YOU PERSONALLY DONE TO EFFECT THE 2nd AMMENDMENT BESIDES SWILL YOUR BUDWISER AND BLAST OFF YOUR SEMI-AUTO "HUNTING" WEAPONS. We know how Zumbo feels about the 2nd Ammendment do to his hundreds if not thousands of articles written. Since we know which side he stands the "intelligent" thing to do is give him a chance to expain himself. Personally I am old school and beleive an AK or SKS has no business sport hunting big game. To use them for blowing up varmits or persoanl defense is a different story. Go back an read a few hundred of Zumbo's articles on gun reivews and tell me he is your enemy of the 2nd Ammendment. "

" Montana hunter, I suggest you compare the ballistics of the 7.62x39 to those of the 30-30 or the 32 winchester special. I think you will find that many have hunted for years with rifles that are essentially AK or SKS. While I do hunt with a Remington 700 myself, I consider myself lucky to have the money for such. Many an SKS has been purchased for 1/3 of what any bolt action rifle is available for (unless you include other milsurp arms). While I do think other arms are better choices for deer hunting, I am not elitist enough to think hunting should be limited to those who can afford "Sporting arms". "

" It is clear Zumbo never did any time in the military. I served my country and have become very comfortable with the AR and it's variants. It is essential that others become comfortable with the configuration so they can defend this country if called upon in state of emergency that will likely have "shorten" training periods for drafted troops. In WWI and WWII some of our finest soldiers regularly shot similiar weapons to those they would serve with at home. For anyone who thinks it is somehow dishonoring to shoot a military style weapon for hunting applications your dead wrong. An M14 should be held in higher esteem then a 30/30 lever action or Savage 30=06. What is more honorable defending your country under fire or shooting a white tail? Any standard battle rifle is fit for hunting. Zumbo's comments were treasoness and if I ever crossed his path I would show that coward what it is like to have a human oponent instead of a grazing animal. I didn't see my friends die so some stupid cowardess hunter can try to limit the freedom I defended. "

" mr. wray is way out of touch with the real world he lives in WROTE A BOOK makes him king sorry wray most every one write a book even me -- i am 86 years old have hunted all my life even for the state as a professional Dumbo aka ZUMBO has always been an ANTI go back in his writings and study them maybe now what i always seen you can also see (i never said any thing because it would look like i was jealous NOW MR WRAY ITS YOUR TURN TO BE PUT AWAY "

" When one is attacked, only a total idiot would “try to understand the attacker’s position, and see it their way�. When you are attacked; you strike back FAST and you strike back HARD! The decent people who kept the despicable and ungrateful Mr. Zumbo employed all these many years, were called “terrorist� by Zumbo . . . They sent a message to other turncoats like Mr. Zumbo as well as the political Anti-Freedom Nazis who would strip the decent and law-abiding of their tools of Freedom. There is an old saying, that Mr. Zumbo ignored, and you Mr. Wray would do well to remember: DO NOT BITE THE HAND THAT FEEDS YOU! The reason for the “attack on Mr. Zumbo�, is called “Principles� Mr. Wray . . . Get a dictionary and look it up. "

" Mr. Wray, I think the blame you lay on the NRA is way off base. I watched this whole thing from it's inception, and the NRA did not voice an opinion until it was pratically over. If anything, they were waiting to see which way the wind was blowing. To imply that the NRA's trained minions pounced on Mr. Zumbo is not only inaccurate, it's a slap in the face to the individuals involved. The reason Mr. Zumbo was taken to task is simple; by implying that people who own such rifles create an "image problem" and suggesting a solution to solve that problem which included the word "ban", Mr. Zumbo came off as an elitist and demonstrated he was willing to throw his fellow gun owners overboard to save his own skin. That's a serious statement to a lot of people, and because of it, in the end it was Mr. Zumbo who ended up taking a swim. "

" Mr. Wray, I believe your basic premise is flawed sir. You said, "They (NRA) created an attitude within their membership that anyone who disagreed was an enemy and the best defense was a good offense." I joined the NRA many years ago BECAUSE they agreed with MY attitude. They have not "created an attitude within their membership", rather we the membership have ensured that the NRA represents OUR attitude. Mr. Zumbo certainly has the right to express his opinions, but I have the right to disagree with him and to do it as loudly as I can. Sponsors and employers have the right to discontinue their financial support of any writer who promotes policies they and/or their customers do not subscribe to. I am sometimes a shooter. I am sometimes a hunter. I am ALWAYS a gun owner. "

" IMHO,Jumbo, who is a hunting expert can write whatever he wants on his blog, and he also has the responsibility to suffer the consequences. However, what he really did wrong, IMHO, is that he suggested banning those rifles. Personally, I don't hunt (why shoot an animal if you can shoot a senator), and if I play a sport, I wanna follow the rules. But I certainly wouldn't ban people from kicking a basketball on public ground. So he can say it's wrong to hunt deer with AR rifles, but don't tell the ever eager communazi gungrabbers that some rifles should be banned. "

" Mr. Wray is a peculiar type of guy. He claims to support the Second Amendment. He claims to oppose divisions between different groups of gun owners. He claims to be a hunter himself. So why then, does Mr. Wray do the one thing most destructive to Second Amendment freedoms -- attacking the NRA in public venues such as this? Like it or not, the NRA is the one major thing standing between us us now and a future stripped of our right to bear arms. Most of us in the fight feel the NRA is, if anything, too hunter-oriented and too middle-of-the-roadish. Yet Mr. Wray constantly depicts the NRA to the general public as radical and extreme. If -- inexplicably -- those were his true feelings, then I could understand him complaining in some private way to the NRA leadership. I might understand him making a focused appeal to gun owners through targeted mailing lists or gun-oriented periodicals. But to voice his supposed views in the general media as he constantly does is nothing but destructive to the Second Amendment he professes to defend. It could only lead eventually to the loss of the firearms he'd have us believe he enjoys hunting with. The same thing could now be said for this very impressive ranting about divisions between gun owners. He criticizes it, he condemns those who do it, yet he very actively creates much worse and more pointless divisions himself. Mr Wray is a former Marine officer and pilot. He holds a degree in psychology. Mr. Wray is a very good writer. Mr. Wray is not a stupid man. Indeed, he is a very thoughtful and calculating man, in my estimation. Mr. Wray knows very well what he is doing, and what the results of it could be. He's doing this on purpose. "

" Pat, You are sounding way too "Old Media" here. It was the bloggers--notably Kim du Toit ("Other Side of Kim") and Tamara K. ("View from the Porch") who ruined Mr. Zumbo's day. The NRA had no idea what was going on at first. Mr. Zumbo is entitled to his aesthetic choices in firearms--and that is all that they are--but he should realize that the Second Amendment applies to all of us. And others might not agree with his aesthetics and the political-cultural divide that he is trying to create. Chas S. Clifton http://natureblog.blogspot.com hunter, nature writer, NRA life member, etc. etc. "

" I haven't been involved in the Zumbo incident. I have been watching and trying to learn what I could. What I have learned is the AHSA, American Hunters and Shooters Association is a thinly disguised anti gun organization. I hope that those of us that believe that the United States of America is a unique and special organization of people that seek to govern themselves will not allow anyone to undermine their constitution. I believe Mr Wray is a traitor to the ideal on which this country was founded. take care Mike "

" I haven't been involved in the Zumbo incident. I have been watching and trying to learn what I could. What I have learned is the AHSA, American Hunters and Shooters Association is a thinly disguised anti gun organization. I hope that those of us that believe that the United States of America is a unique and special organization of people that seek to govern themselves will not allow anyone to undermine their constitution. I believe Mr Wray is a traitor to the ideal on which this country was founded. take care Mike "

" Mr Wray is clearly anti gun . He has no business writing articles on guns or hunting. "

" I will explain things so simply that even Pat Wray will be able to understand me. First of all, I bitterly resent having Mr. Zumbo call me "a terrorist". Words like that make me fighting mad. And after 9/11 any decent citizen should feel this way. And I also resent having Mr. Wray say that my reaction was prompted by the NRA. I am a man and I make my decisions for myself. I am no one's pawn and Mr. Wray's assertion also makes me fighting mad. I also take great issue with some of the words used by Mr. Wray in his article. Words such as "fear", "treason" and "paranoia" have no place in a reasonable article. Such inflammatory language shows that Mr. Wray is writing with a particular bias or agenda. Perhaps he acts as a shill for some anti-gun organization or another. I am particulary aggrieved by Mr. Zumbo because I supported him for many years. The man made a comfortable living because of people like me. Most ordinary folks cannot afford to go on fancy hunting trips and Mr. Zumbo lived a wonderful life going on sponsored hunts all over the world. Mr. Zumbo's comments were even more outrageous as there is yet another Democrat-sponsored gun-grab in the works. Mr. Zumbo betrayed his constituents; our reaction was predictable and Mr. Zumbo got what he deserved. The man did not have an untrammelled right to enjoy such a career. Mr. Zumbo's arrogance was the cause of his downfall. "

" If we have a completely unalienable right to own arms, do we have a right to use them for whatever purpose we so choose? If I choose to use rocket propelled grenades or depleted uranium rounds to hunt, is that my choice? I'm sure someone who "defends the second amendment" here is going to come up with the manufactured nonsense idea that "munitions" are not the same thing as "arms." Hogwash. "

" What I've learned from the Jim Zumbo saga and from reading some of the comments to Mr. Wray's story is that gun owners are an intolerant bunch and, I must admit, is so passionate as to be feared. There is no room for dissenting views. It seems many of you think that if one even questions or sympatizes with Mr. Zumbo, then one is jeopardizing the sanctity of the 2nd Amendment. For example, one poster, "John L." wrote: "But to voice his [Pat Wray] supposed views in the general media as he constantly does is nothing but destructive to the Second Amendment he professes to defend. It could only lead eventually to the loss of the firearms he'd have us believe he enjoys hunting with." So, "John L." believe even giving one's opinion on the fate of Mr. Zumbo would jeopardize the 2nd Amendment. Mr. John L., to live with such fear of having your guns taken away by the boogeyman in your mind is a life that I doubt anyone envies. "

" Mr. Wray shows his bias against the NRA and is foolish enough to defend Mr. Zumbo as a way of bashing the NRA. I had never heard of Mr. Wray before the Zumbo incident, and I will forget his name soon as well. Jim Zumbo's commment are not defendable and the backlash was not driven by the NRA. It was driven by common people as myself who had provided Mr. Zumbo a lifestyle that none of us could ever envision. Then, in an instant he throws us all under the anti-gun bus. If Mr. Wray does not understand that, perhaps he should keep his liberal opinions to himself and stick with "bird hunting." "

" Righteousowner, Check your premises. The "arms" mentioned in the 2nd A are "of the kind in common use at the time" (US Supreme Court, Miller, 1939). The court said that when called to service the militia (thats YOU bud) was expected to appear bearing arms that would be suitable for use in the militia. Certainly the EBR (evil black rifles) which are the STARNDARD issue for the military would be included. Arms do not include tanks, grenade launchers, rockets or a-bombs. The 2nd A protects the VERY rifle D(Z)umbo reviled. It does not protect his pretty wood stocked bolt action rifles so he can hunt with them. It protects arms so that the "people" can defend themselves, and the state, from criminals or tyrants, or invaders. Zumbo was stupid because he doesn't know that, and he still doesn't get it! "

" JT, it's one thing to have a dissenting view; expressing that view in a constructive and community-oriented way is something else entirely. Frankly, I have certain dislikes myself -- I dislike inline, plastic stocked muzzleloaders being used during what was intended to be a "primitive" hunting season. I dislike guys showing up at the practice range in military style clothing, or in obscene T-shirts. But when I have a complaint, I bring my complaint to the source of the trouble. I take an action that can logically be expected to have a positive result, rather than a negative result. I don't use one incident to paint all gun owners as nuts in the Washington Post, as Mr. Wray seems inclined. I don't lump them in with terrorists and call for new laws, as Mr. Zumbo did. With bills like HR1022 now before Congress, anyone who refers to the possibility of the Second Amendment being infringed upon as "the boogeyman in your mind" has got to be joking, or in a coma. "

" I find interesting the arguments made in support of Mr. Wray and Mr. Zumbo. I was not even aware of the Zumbo incident until it was all over, and I confess I was very saddened. I have enjoyed Mr. Zumbo's writing, but was offended by the blog entry that caused this "explosion." I am NOT a terrorist, despite the fact that I own an AR15. I don't "Swill Budweiser." EVER. I dislike cheap beer, and only for very special events drink more than one beer in a day. The Elitist attitudes of Mr. Wray and some of his supporters would be humorous if the situation were not so serious. HR 1022 is not some fringe comment by an extremist. Or rather, in my opinion it IS such a statement, but it has far more support than I am comfortable with. The number of people who are willing or even eager to throw law abiding gun owners like myself to the wolves, just because we like "politically incorrect" firearms is terrifying. I wonder which guns would be next? IIRC both Britain and Australia have banned any shotgun than can possibly hold more than 2 rounds. They have both effectively banned handguns. They started with "reasonable restrictions." I am 41 years old. Until the last few years, it seemed like every "compromise" on gun control issues meant that we gun owners gave up something. We have had some recent wins on concealed carry, and the sunset of the AWB counts as a win I suppose. Why is it that "reasonable restrictions" seems to mean "Give this up today, we'll see what we want to take tomorrow." "

" The NRA is a steadfast and worthy organization. According to Mr. Zumbo, I am a terrorist by definition just because of the firearm I own. I am not a hunting "purist" because I cannot afford a 10 thosand dollar firearm. "

" Jim Zumbo demonstrated he was far too ignorant of weapons technology to hold a position of authority in either the hunting or firearms press. I was one of those who responded very quickly and vigorously to his slanderous, treacherous and bone headed remarks. His very comfortable existence was gained from the fraternity of gun owners, shooters and hunters and it was we, not the NRA, who put him in his rightful place. Wray appears to be nothing more than a paid hack of Soros and his unsavory, anti-American, internationalist ilk. "

" I wasn't an NRA member before this incident happened. I only read about it the first of this week. I am now an NRA member. Neither do I own a rifle of the type Jim Zumbo commented on. I joined because I believe in our Constitution, and because I believe the 2nd Amendment is in jeopardy. I believe that the McCarthy/Brady movement is to totally disarm the American public. The following is from their campaign and I, for one, do not want people that would lie and twist the truth, like they do in this piece of total misinformation, deciding anything for me. This is reportedly anti-gun propaganda from the McCarthy/Brady camp:Too little, too late. The damage he's caused is irreversable. This from the Brady Campaign. "Even Remington's top gun writer agrees on Assault Weapons. With important writers such as this on our side, it is clear that we have a cultural imperative to remove dangerous terrorist rifles from our streets, and our woods. Jim Zumbo is a writer for the prestigious Outdoor Life magazine and represents the views of America's true sportsmen. He is also sponsored by Remington. Monday, February 19, 2007 The tragic proliferation of Sniper Rifles. I would like to take a moment to comment on the proliferation of Sniper Rifles. Sniper Rifles are typically equipped with a high-powered scope, and every single one of them can blow through the body armor cops wear. They can even penetrate multiple police cars. Does the Second Amendment protect cop-killer Sniper Rifles? The NRA certainly thinks so, along with the powerful gun lobby that wants your children and your law enforcement officers to be at risk from these weapons of mass destruction. Some of these Sniper Rifles can even penetrate ballistic or armored glass, lightly armored vehicles, and armored limousines. Senator Ted Kennedy attempted to solve this with an important bill that would have banned armor piercing ammunition and protected lawful firearm commerce: "Another rifle caliber, the 30.30 caliber, was responsible for penetrating three officers' armor and killing them in 1993, 1996, and 2002. This ammunition is also capable of puncturing light-armored vehicles, ballistic or armored glass, armored limousines, even a 600-pound safe with 600 pounds of safe armor plating..... ..It is outrageous and unconscionable that such ammunition continues to be sold in the United States of America.." Should our elected officials live under the threat of reprisal on their lives from disgruntled constituents? The Gun Lobby seems to think so. We disagree. Sniper Rifles can be equipped with precision optics above even what the Military uses, allowing a sniper to deliver rounds within millimeters of accuracy - enabling them to engage targets at distances of well over one hundred meters. Is there a pressing need to be able to kill with accuracy at that distance? It is too far to justify as self defense. It is too far for hunting. It is only useful for those who wish to murder from afar. Large caliber Sniper Rifles such as the .50 Browning Machine Gun can derail freight cars, shoot down aircraft and helicopters, damage vital ground equipment such as power substations, fuel tanks, and air traffic control, and cause complete chaos. For more information on why large caliber machine-gun rounds must be banned, visit http://www.50caliberterror.com. A shipment of large caliber machine-gun round sniper rifles made by Steyr turned up in Iran, and are being used on our own soldiers, as the .50 bullets easily defeat their body armor, their up-armored humvees, and even APCs. Many forward thinking, progressive politicians such as Ted Kennedy, Chuck Schumer, Barbara Boxer, Nancy Pelosi, Hillary Clinton, and Barack Obama have voted against Center-Fire Rifle Ammunition of types for Sniper Rifles, but due to the pressure and massive financial resources of the gun industry, the necessary steps to protect our homes and lives have not been attained. Sniper Rifles have been used by murderers and spree killers for years, with notable incidents such as the Beltway Snipers, the Clocktower Sniper, and more. ANY rifle configured and equipped as a sniper rifle has no sporting purpose especially as a hunting rifle. They are too big and heavy to take to the field. Designed for distance shooting, they are useless for the ranges at which game animals are normally shot, and when used on sporting sized game at range they often just wound the animal, inhumanely forcing it to die slowly while the would-be hunter tracks it to finish it off. Most Sniper Rifles fire atypically large cartridges and ultra high velocity ammunition that can travel much greater distances that standard ammunition. The danger imposed from missed shots and ricochetes from these specialty rounds is unreasonable. Most of these rifles carry multiple rounds, with either an automatic mechanism, or a quick toggle action to rapidly move another bullet into the breech, ready to fire into another victim. In most states, they are nearly unrestricted. Anyone over the age of 18 can buy one. If they can't pass a background check, they skirt the NCIS system by going to a gunshow, or finding a private sale in the newspaper. A murderer camped at a distance from a public gathering could quickly turn it into a massacre dwarfing anything we have seen before in the United States, if they had a Sniper Rifle. If they adopted hit and run tactics, entire portions of our country could be shut down. Sniper Rifles shoot a high powered bullet that is almost always fatal. They are designed for one thing- delivering powerful overkill with deadly precision. You don't need the kind of power and accuracy that can kill a man at five hundred yards for hunting rabbits or defending your house. We should also give commendations to France because many years ago they designated any firearm capable of shooting military ammunition as a military arm, illegal to posess without a special permit and unlawful to use for hunting. The 223, 308, 7mm mauser, 30-06, and 6.5x55 have no place in the hunting fields of France. Firearms shooting these calibers are military weapons only designed for killing PEOPLE and should be kept out of the hands of the general population. Because they have no hunting purpose, there is no reason for civilians to own them. Every state in the USA has hunting equipment rules that limit the caliber of firearm used to take game. They also limit the types of rifles, length, magazine capacity, etc. States should amend these hunting regulations to restrict the use of "sniper" rifles, specialty "sniper" cartridges, and "sniper" ammunition. Limits on weight, barrel length, bipods and tripods, thumbhole stocks and pistol grips, night vision type scopes, scopes of excessive magnification, super magnum and high velocity ammunition, and military slings should be imposed. They have no place in the hunting fields of America and hunting usage should not be used as an argument for civilians to own such firearms and weapons. There are more than ample hunting rifles, cartridges, and rounds of ammunition to choose from without them. Let us hope that in a safer, saner America, we will succeed in our efforts to restrict the deadly spread of long distance murder rifles." This is why gun owners are immensely upset when a person, who is looked upon by so many as a spokesman for the Constitution, and the hunting/shooting sports, makes statements that harm us all, not to mention the United States Constitution. Thank you for your "ear". DJ/Washington State "

" It's working! Let's Keep up the good work. Those who apologise and help the left wing traitors need to know. If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen. (truman I think. Call the liberal leftist to task for actions and lies. Act Now! "

" Pat Wray is right on! As a fellow hunter and firearm owner...I have a hard time watching the NRA Klan burn cross after cross on Zumbo's lawn. This country is founded on diversity of opinion. It's strength is based on the respect of that diversity. When we get all paranoid...like you right-wing NRA wackos...we do bad things...like invade Iraq! The anit-gun folks had zero reaction to Zumbo's blog...but man are they laughing watching the NRA-inspired wackos pummel the guy. It really is a feeding frenzy. Good column, Pat!!! "

" Thanks Pat for your perspective. I have emailed several businesses, including the NRA, noting my displeasure that they have severed ties with Zumbo. Part of my text to them says "I don't think he was wrong and I don't think he was calling assualt rifle owners terroists. I believe his perspective was that the association of assualt looking rifles with hunting would be bad. I agree. The only association the general public has with assault rifles is with bad guys in the news/movies and SWAT teams, nothing to do with hunting, it should be kept this way. Hunting keeps fire arms available to the public. When hunting goes away so will all fire arms. It is not the other way around. It's sad that you can base a decision on one comment in the many years that Mr. Zumbo has been protecting and promoting the sport of hunting. So you have taken a step towards that unfortunate day. Because of that I will take my purchases, hunting and non-hunting, elsewhere. You have betrayed our trust in you. Whatever or whomever scared you into this decision shows you do not have the backbone to stand firm when needed. And someday it will be needed." "

" 1) yes this is overkill with Zumbo 2) Yes he should be reproached for his statements. 3) The next time someone calls us "right-wing NRA wackos", they ought to take care. We might use a "long distance murder rifle" on them. **rolling eyes** I'm not an NRA member, but make no mistake, the anti's will do anything and everything to take ALL our guns. All they need is an excuse. I don't agree with using AR's and AK's for hunting, but I don't agree with restricting others who do. A civilian AR-15 is no different than a Browning BAR or Remington Auto-loader. Other than caliber and styling. The remington and browning are chambered for far more powerful cartridges, but can be fired just as quickly. But I don't need an AR, I can fire a lever gun just as quickly. Better take those too, to make it a safe and sane America. Don't forget the Auto and pump shotguns. The double barrels too. They shoot 2 shots without any mechanism reloading either chamber!... Yes that is the logic they will use. Over the course of years. Regardless of any statistical evidence at any point in time. Never mind the fact that no violent crime of any kind has been committed in America or anywhere else in the world with a .50 BMG caliber Sniper Rifle.(Just for clarification, the Iranian Steyrs were sold to fully vetted government officials. The Iranian gov't shipped them to the terrorists in Iraq. We're dealing with so-called educated people who use the term "toggle switche" to describe how a round is chambered. Other "educated" people who aren't familiar with firearms will see that and mistakenly take it as truth, just as intended by the author. I apologize, I didn't mean to write this much. But complete irrational Stupidity really chaps my hide. "

" For years the NRA has been latching onto hunters...yet they have only one thing in common with most hunters, and that is firearms. The NRA does not represent hunters well...only pretending to care. Instead, they are primarily a front for the firearms industry, parroting the second amendment paranoia common in that crowd. I agree with Pat. "

" sup homies i like guns "

" The NRA controls my mind!! I have no thoughts of my own! I can only think and say what the NRA commands me to! Help, I am the living brain dead, destined to attack anyone who attacks my right to own and use guns that I shoot and hunt with. Do not read the AMERICAN RIFLEMAN magazine, as there are many thought control messages hidden inside each issue. And every NRA membership card has had a voodoo curse placed on it, that then converts you into living the Zombie lifestyle, and forever a slave to the NRA. Lance in Springfield "

" I disagree with Shane below. The Anti-gun crowd (and Congressional representatives) should take notice of the response they will receive from the general public. Shane wrote on February 26, 2007 8:12 AM:"I agree with Mr. Wray. It seems many gun owners (especially assault weapon enthusiasts) work themselves up into a frenzy, and go on the attack with realizing the damage they are doing to themselves as well as their perceived enemy. The anti-gun crowd has enjoyed ever minute of reading about infighting because of these ill conceived attacks on each other. " "

" Gosh, if you were looking for a mirror incident to occur with your career... "

" Americans, stand up for your rights! Here in Australia we cannot own semi auto rifels or shotguns, or pump action shotguns because our government listend to morons like this Zumbo Dumbo..... We thought it would not happen, just like you in the USA think it won't..... "

" He doesn't understand that those guns are mechanically the same as other semi-autos, and then claims they should be banned. How long has he been in this industry and he doesn't know about the farce that was called the Assault Weapons ban? It was pure propaganda, and he was re-lighting that fire after the ban expired. Personally I am glad his career is over. Any educated gun-owning, freedom loving American should pull support from an ignorant, panic inducing journalist like him. "

" I just want to say that..Americans BETTER open their eye's because their rights are being taken away one at a time and they don't even see it. They want our guns but when it hits the fan here on our own FREE LAND they'll be begging us the ones who own guns to please protect them the one's against the law biding citizan with there so called black terriust weapons, as we say sorry you don't want us to have them well make believe we don't your on your own. The only way anyone is getting my weapons is to put a bullet between my eyes. Just hope your a faster draw then I. They have to come after us the lawbiding citizan with the registered guns because they're all either to stupid or to scared to go get the ones off the streets that are doing the real damage. With all all the ganges and drug dealers. If all these gangs are so BADA..... and tough round them up and ship there butts over seas and lets see how bada....they are. Sorry I had more to say than I thought Two to the Chest One to the Head We like them alive buit we'll take THEM DEAD. GOD BLESS AMERICA. OORAAA. SEMPER FI DO OR DIE!!!!!!!!!!! "

" See as I said taking your rights away one at a time, Just took my 1st amendment right away right here because I couldn't speak out the way I wanted to. I feel so sorry for this great country of our's. Never knew we wouldn't all stick together. I'm sorry I brought kids into this world of our's they're going to suffer the most. "

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