Two economics experts squared off Monday at the Corvallis City Club to discuss whether choosing growth in the economy has to come at the cost of the environment and the poor.

Patrick D. Emerson, an associate professor of economics at Oregon State University, and Robert Dietz, the executive director of the Center for the Advancement of a Steady State Economy, agreed on a few basic points - that economic growth is a means to an end, and everyone has a stake in it.

But the two disagreed mightily on how to craft an economy for a society focused on sustainability.

"It's important to recognize the limits the Earth has," Dietz said. "The answer to those limits is sustainable scale. What is the right size for an economy? That's not an easy answer."

Although Emerson noted that an over-stressed environment is a big concern, particularly in countries such as India and China, where growth has consumed many natural resources, he said prosperity helps give people the freedom to take care with the environment.

"All the things we expect from our lives: long lives, lives without disease, the expectation of having kids that will survive, these are all consequences of living in a country that has grown and grown strong throughout the 20th century," he said. "The process of growth is different going forward than looking back."

Dietz suggested that wholesale reform is necessary to change the focus of the current economy from growth to balance.

"The market's really bad at determining how big it should be," he said. "The money system, tax policy, all of it is geared toward growth."

Emerson argued that economic prosperity has shown to help cure some stresses on the environment, including smaller population growth in developed nations. For local economies, population growth, however, might be the engine that drives a new economy.

"We know that living densely is much more efficient than living spread out. Population growth is perhaps not something to be afraid of," he said. "It's important to get the regulations right in the local economy. In my view, the appropriate role of government is to preserve and protect those public places that are of value."

Matt Neznanski can be reached at 758-9518 or matt.neznanski@

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